Session 7: Peter Dijkstra on what actually gets a band booked at Vera

Peter Dijkstra has booked Vera in Groningen for almost five years, after ten years managing the band The Homesick and running festivals and venues in Friesland. His predecessor booked on three things, he can only remember two: songs and soul, meaning sincerity and stage presence matter more than a slick live show. Vera runs a 450-capacity main hall and an 80 to 120 capacity downstage bar on over 200 volunteers, and Dijkstra explains why the venue rarely turns toxic: small teams with their own coordinators, one paid role coordinating all of it, and a trust contact separate from your team leader. Only 28 to 30 percent of the budget comes from public funding, so ticket sales and the bar carry the rest, and post-pandemic club nights, once the venue's most reliable income, have not recovered. He also tells the full arc of managing The Homesick: discovered at a two-week nonstop marathon gig, signed via a Spotify Discover Weekly algorithm pick at Sub Pop, an album released a week before the pandemic, a dropped deal, a publishing contract that blocked a new label, and a new deal with Siluh Records after Dijkstra stepped back this year. He closes with three pieces of advice for touring bands: don't lose money playing shows, invest in merch as the cheapest way to build a brand, and don't think inside your own borders.

Full transcript

Session 7 - Conversation with Peter
(Speakers corrected. Embedded interjections split out to the right speaker. Words kept verbatim.)

Speakers:
- Eryn (host)
- Rasmus (co-host, Tapetown)
- Peter (guest, Vera, Groningen / Queer Factory, Leeuwarden)

[Eryn]
All right. Peter, we've already talked about you a little bit. Before you arrived. And just... Vera, introduce yourself to everyone who's attending. Tell a little bit about your background and what you do. And then we'll get started.

[Peter]
Yeah, of course. No problem. Thanks for having me today, first of all.

This is a really cool platform that you guys developed. So, happy to be part of it. So, yeah, I'm Peter.

I've been working as a music promoter for, I'd say, 15 years, I guess. I'm not really sure. Started out in Lil' Worden at first.

Maybe like a small step back, actually. Because I started doing journalism for education. So I wanted to be a writer.

And then I kind of noticed during my education that... You know, you're a writer or you're not a writer. And I kind of felt like I was a writer, but I lacked knowledge on certain topics.

And that was something you couldn't learn at the School of Journalism. So I felt kind of stuck there. And I really enjoyed writing about music.

So I basically started writing on my own social media accounts and my own blog about the bands that I was seeing live in multiple venues across the Netherlands or festivals that I was visiting. And then I started writing for the weblog of 3voor12. And also for OR Magazine.

And yeah, at some point I thought like, okay, now I'm telling other people's stories. But hey, what's my own story here? And I felt that I kind of got stuck in interviewing bands or write about new records that came out or live shows.

And I felt like I was just watching from a sideline instead of really actually working in the music business. So at some point I joined this independent venue in Leeuwarden called Osterix, which quite recently reopened again. And now it's named Beatrix.

And it's pretty cool. It's kind of like Vera in small. So it's a small venue located in a former prison.

And it's a really cool place. And there I kind of started out writing for Osterix in a magazine that we developed about the bands we were putting up. And at some point the promoter, who was also Peter, to make it even more confusing, he said like, don't you want to join in?

Because you know so much about new bands and stuff. Don't you want to join in and help out on making the program for the venue? Because we're also developing some new festivals and could really use some help with that.

I said, okay, this is nice. This is something I was never thinking of being able to do. So I grabbed the opportunity and together with the people from Osterix, we developed a few festivals like Welcome to the Village, which was a summer festival.

And Explore the North, which is still going on in Leeuwarden. It's a winter festival about music and literature. And yeah, around the same time, I was also thinking of, maybe should I explore more of the other side of the music industry?

So working with artists and bands to develop their career and see if my network as a promoter can help them with that. And so I started managing a young band from a nearby town called The Homesick. And I've been working with them for 10 years and recently quit.

My kitty is annoying. He wants to listen to you. Yeah, he always starts talking when I'm talking.

[Eryn]
Perfect. Happy to have him. Yeah, welcome.

[Peter]
And so I've been working with them for 10 years and we stopped after this summer because I lacked the time to do it in a proper way. But we had a really interesting run together as manager and band and went through all these different phases of a career. Signing to major labels, SUPUP, and getting sacked by the label as well.

Trying to release a record during the pandemic and all stuff like that and international touring. Yeah, and in the meantime I did multiple festivals and venues and now I'm perfectly happy at Vera for the last almost five years now.

[Eryn]
Hang on a second. I need to make sure that I'm getting some feedback that some other people can only hear me.

[Rasmus]
I can hear Peter. I can hear Peter.

[Eryn]
Okay.

[Rasmus]
Can everyone hear Peter? That's the question. Probably.

[Eryn]
Okay, okay. Interesting. Okay, then we'll continue.

[Rasmus]
Okay, super. Maybe it's just your setting. You can always try and go down and up again.

You can adjust a speaker sound volume. Pierre is saving us again with the tech advice.

[Eryn]
Wow, my goodness.

[Rasmus]
Let's try and see if I can do something.

[Eryn]
Okay, and then I don't know, Peter, if you touched on this, but you're also involved in Queer Factory in Leopardo, right?

[Peter]
Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

This is... So, during the pandemic, my boyfriend and I and our close friend Eva started meeting up every Sunday and talking about the things we... Well, that kind of annoyed us about the city of Leopardo.

I already moved to Groningen nine or ten years ago, but they are still living in Leopardo. And we thought that there was... That we wanted to do something to make the city feel more inclusive and raising some awareness for the queer people in Leopardo.

Well, most of the time, they just came to Groningen instead of having their own community going strong and vibrant in Leopardo. So, we just started talking about, okay, what can we do to raise the visibility or having this community which is so scattered and sometimes so, I don't know, insecure about their safety or position in the city? How can we empower them or maybe make them feel less lonely?

And then we talked to three other friends of us and they felt the same. So, we thought, okay, maybe we can just start this open community or collective of people that share same values or ideas and interests and start doing events or meetups. We were first thinking of doing it digital, kind of like what we're doing today.

But in the end, we are all people that are having experience in organizing events, mostly driven by culture, movement. So, we thought, okay, maybe we just have to use this knowledge that we have in organizing events or movements and start doing events on a regular base to show how rich our community is and how many people there actually are that you might not have heard of, like performance artists or writers or drag queens or whatever, DJs. So, yeah, we started in, I'd say, 24, late 23.

And yeah, we raised a lot of visibility in quite a short time, which is really cool. And it helped that Leeuwarden had this Pride event called Roser Zaterdag at some point, which is a super big event, also outdoors on the main square. And people from all over the Netherlands came there.

So, that was kind of like a very empowering kickoff movement. And nowadays, we're less focusing on events, but more focusing on politics. So, we're in talk with the city about the things they can do to make the community feel more safe.

And we're also talking to companies or stores in town about training or education on this subject and doing a lot of awareness. So, we recently released our own merch and all the sales will be used to do events or new visibility or awareness. Yeah, I would say like new events that empower the community in the city.

So, all money flows to the community right away.

[Eryn]
Very cool. And do you think it helps being at the intersection of sort of music and culture for the educational side of things too, when it comes to those kinds of, yeah, I guess, political issues? I feel like culture always has quite an influence.

[Peter]
Yeah, absolutely. I think like cultural events are like the most accessible form of making things visible or inviting people to like join in and be part of this experience. So, we try to do it.

Most of the time, we try to do it in already existing environments. So, for instance, during the Northern Film Festival and then we curate like two or three movies about this subject and then we'll also do a talk and we'll probably do also an after party. So, you will have people attending that are usually not common to queer culture.

So, we try to invite them in like their safe environment to take a step left and see what else is there to explore.

[Eryn]
Does any of that work that you do with Queer Factory bleed over into Vera and Groningen at all? Or are they a bit more separate entities and projects?

[Peter]
Good question. Well, I think I've always tried to use my position as a promoter or organizer to address like certain subjects that matter to me. So, for instance, in the festivals I was doing in the past, I tried to raise awareness for queer culture as well but also for that we have like this very Anglo-American vision towards music.

And I think we were one of the first summer festival that really tried to blend in music and sounds from different areas from across the world and also have some focus on certain areas or countries that we thought were exciting or important to talk about. And it's the same with Vera. So, in a way, it's like you just wanna put the best bands on and have people go there and have a good time and meet up with other people or like-minded people.

But also to like sometimes have these nights where you see an artist that tells a different story that you might not have heard of. So, there's always kind of like this activism thing in the things I'm trying to put on stage. So, in a way, it blends with what I'm doing at Queerfactory.

But at Queerfactory, I feel it's sometimes it's... No, it's not. Sometimes it is.

It actually is a way more activism.

[Eryn]
Yeah. No, I think that's also very important when sort of hosting those kinds of communities too and making sure that everyone is made visible in the feet of everything that's been going on. If there are any artists, for example, that wanna get involved in these types of causes or anything like you described, what do you think would be the best recommendation to kind of reach out to these types of organizations or projects directly or to go through like a close connection or what is the best way you think would be to go about joining and performing at these kinds of events?

[Peter]
So, you mean particularly for the things I'm doing or like in general?

[Eryn]
Particularly for the kinds of... I mean, from both kinds of perspectives, I think. With Queerfactory being a very open community-based opportunity and Vera also being like very open but still like a very established venue.

Maybe you can talk about both and maybe the differences between getting into both areas from an artist perspective.

[Peter]
Yeah, okay, for sure. Starting then with Vera. So, the main hall has a 450 capacity.

So, if you're doing like your first shows or like you look for small places, then you probably won't get booked for the main hall yet. But we have a downstage cellar bar where we do like smaller shows for 80 to 120 capacity. And sometimes when it's really busy, like last night, we squeeze in even more.

The downstage group has their own little team doing the shows. So, they have their own promoter and he's working at Vera as a volunteer. And so, there are basically two ways you can just reach out to him on email and saying like, hey, I'm a new artist and I've heard about this place and I heard it's pretty cool.

Let's see. Yeah, thank you, Erin, for correcting the website.

[Eryn]
No worries.

[Peter]
This is the right one. And on the other hand, if you're living in the city, the best thing you can do is just swing by at some point when we're open. And so, not on office hours, but when we actually have shows going on and try to connect with the audience or the people at Vera and look up the promoter from the downstage or look me up because I'm trying to be like at the most concerts.

I'm not there every time, but most of them I am. You know, I think I remember you the most when we just have like a regular conversation about music or about what you're working on and not so much by sending the perfect email or something. Especially not calling me on the phone because I hardly pick up the phone in the office because I'm so busy all day.

But yeah, and for Queer Factory, we have this... Well, you can look it up on the website. We have our own email.

You can fill in a form. You can reach us on social media or on Instagram. And say like, hey, I want to be part of what you're doing.

You don't have to be like an artist getting booked or anything for Queer Factory. We're just really happy to meet other people that want to take part in what we're doing. And right now it's pretty much focused on Leowarden, but we're also going to a small organization in...

I forget the village's name, but there's a small village in the south of Ireland that is doing kind of same community work. And they heard about what we were doing. And so they reached out, like maybe we can do like this project all across Europe, connecting like small cities with underground vibrant queer culture and see how we can exchange things or learn from each other or anything like that.

So if you're based somewhere else in Europe and you feel like this story resonates to the things you're doing or things you're working on in your own town, we'd love to just get in touch and see what we can do together.

[Eryn]
I think Groningen Leowarden is a unique sort of grassroots and underground artists or music or projects with such an international outreach. I feel like there's something that I've noticed about Groningen's support for its local scene and its ability to sort of cast a wide net out to the rest of Europe or the rest of the world and kind of get the name on the map somewhere, which I've always loved so much about the city with Vira and Simplon and of course happening there. It's always, you know, it's such a cool city to kind of find popular local music, which is very fun.

[Peter]
Yeah, it's kind of interesting that you have like this relatively small solitary city up north in the Netherlands with so many like venues or like the right infrastructure for basically developing a whole career like starting at a small bar and then play Vira, Simplon. You can go to Oosterpoort bigger and then you have a couple of festivals. So it has a very good infrastructure in a way to support.

[Eryn]
Yeah, and both Simplon and Vira do have like very supportive local programs too like the basement program and then at Simplon we have UP, where I was a programmer for a little while too, where it really gives a spotlight on the local scene and on local artists. And I think it's so valuable to kind of support those artists because some of them do eventually play the main stage of Vira or of Simplon.

[Peter]
Yeah, absolutely. And I totally agree. And this is like for both venues and I think this counts for everyone all across, but for both venues, your core audience is like the people that are part of these local communities, right?

Like they are part of, for instance, in Groningen you have Red Race, which is a community based around hardcore punk bands. They do their own shows sometimes on squatted places, but they also do shows in Vira. And the people attending there are also attending Vira right now and they will probably go to the bigger hardcore bands that were in the main hall as well.

So you really need to keep track on the base of what is going on in your city and help them any way you can. So also with, you know, we renew our gear every now and then like the front of house table or the lights or I don't know, monitors, whatever, or the stage. And then with the old stuff, where not everything will be sold, but there's also a big part that we donate to these squatted places to actually keep that underground scene going in the city.

[Eryn]
Very, very cool. I want to get into the community aspect of the music scene there in a moment, but I also have a question from Rasmus to talk about your work with The Homesick and how they sort of went from a very sort of underground indie group to getting signed. If there's anything that you're, if there's a story there that you would like to tell.

[Peter]
Yeah, for sure. It's funny. I have my goodbye dinner tonight with them.

So this is super coincident.

[Eryn]
Oh, sweet.

[Peter]
But yeah, so the first time I saw them, they were playing in Ostrich, but I didn't book them, but we had this thing during, we did a attempt for setting the world record of the longest concert ever.

[Eryn]
Oh my God.

[Peter]
And this was a concert that took on for two weeks, nonstop day and night. And we did it together with the other venue back then in Lillewater called Romijn.

The first week was in Ostrich and the second week was in Romijn and they were the final bands because everyone could just apply and say, hey, we can play this time slot or that time slot. So a lot of bands joined in. It was really a cool community thing as well and a hell of a production.

But yeah, so the final band playing Ostrich was The Homesick. I didn't knew them. I just walked down in the hall and I heard them play and I was like blown away.

It was really cool. And so I walked up to them and said, like, hey, are you playing next week in Romijn as well? Or was this like the only show?

And then they said, no, we're out there next week as well. So I was like, okay, I'm going to see it again. And again, it was really energetic.

They were like this powerhouse of post-punk trio. And they just started and then they applied for the local band competition, Kleine Prijs van Friesland, and they won. And in the jury, there was Koenter Heegte.

Some of you know him, maybe. He's the manager of Tramhaus these days. But back then he was working on, and he still is, on Sopratine Records, his own label, bringing out the coolest Dutch bands.

You should check the label if you're into indie guitar music.

[Eryn]
He was actually just a guest a few weeks ago.

[Peter]
Oh, wonderful.

I hope he didn't tell the same story as I'm telling, but okay.

[Eryn]
No, I don't think so.

[Peter]
Well, he wanted to do a release with them on cassettes. And they were like, okay, this label guy, we don't know him, but he wanted to do a release, maybe you can help out. And I already knew Koen.

So we sat down and started working together. And I recall that before we could even do something at all, I had to visit the drummer's parents because he was only 17. And they were like, who are these people working with my kid on his career?

So that was really fun. We had a very nice visit to the local town of Dokkum, where they came from and sat down with their parents. And they gave us their blessing.

They thought we were okay people, I guess. And then we started working together and we did two releases on a separate team. And they played a lot of shows all across Europe, really trying to build an audience by live shows instead of working from out of the label, trying to push the band everywhere.

We did it the other way around. And at some point, people in the Netherlands started to get really interested in the band because they were doing really good abroad. So doing it in like over 50 shows abroad, really people started asking like, oh, what is this band?

Maybe we missed something. So that kind of worked. And then at some point, I got this email from a guy who was a publishing agent at Sopup.

And Sopup, of course, is famous for releasing Nirvana, Father John Misty, Beach House, all these cool bands. And he said like, hey, somehow in my Discover Weekly on Spotify, this song came up called The Best Part of Being Young Is Falling In Love With Jesus, which is quite the title, especially during Easter.

[Eryn]
I'll say. Very on theme.

[Peter]
Very on theme. And he said like, yeah. And then everyone at the Sopup office was playing the song and everyone digged it.

And then we started looking into the band and it turned out you guys aren't from the US, but from this tiny country, the Netherlands. And it happens to be that I'm there in a month and maybe we should meet up. And I was like, this is crazy.

Using Discover Weekly to find out about this band and maybe thinking of signing them right away. So, yeah, that's how the algorithm was working. And we met up and we had a lovely chat and the band wasn't impressed at all because they didn't listen to bands that were on Sopup.

So for them it was like, okay, this is a cool, great, huge label, but we're not really blown away by it because it's not our favorite label. But me and Koen were very excited. So then the tricky part began on negotiating a record deal with a huge label, which is quite difficult.

And it's a lot of different things you have to keep in mind about the length of the deal and what all things that are involved and all the music rights and stuff like that. And I asked some advice from a friend of mine who is the manager of Kensington, which is pretty much one of the biggest bands in the Netherlands. And he said like, okay, there's this one person I can think of that knows American music rights, but she's in the middle of this conflict between the manager of the DJ Afro House, of Afrojack and himself.

And so she's kind of occupied, but she will be available in a few months. So I had to keep the label waiting for a few months. And then I sat down with her and she demolished the whole contract, like saying, no, this has to be out of it.

This has to be out of it. Keep in mind with this thing and that thing. And that was really, really great.

And then with all her notes, I went back to the label. And they, they, eventually this is, it all sounds like a crazy story, but they called me at Christmas Eve and saying, hey, we have some good news for you. We're going to sign the band based on your terms.

So then we had the contracts and then they flew us out to Seattle to meet the whole team. We spent there three days. Did some sightseeing, went to all the Twin Peaks movies of series sites where they shot the series and all this tourist stuff.

And they showed us around the city and yeah, it was really nice. They really made us feel comfortable. And then they worked out a whole plan and it kind of like, at some point you're feeling like, oh, everything is getting taken over by, by the label.

And you're trusting them like you probably know best. But I felt that they were very good in, in working towards the American Canadian music market, but didn't have like a real plan for how to, how to work things out in Europe. So we, we asked them to have a European office that we knew, we already knew to help out.

And they agreed on that because they were, they were at that point signing around four or five bands from Europe. They didn't have any bands from Europe at that point, but they wanted to expand. And so we came at the right time and everything was looking pretty solid.

We've booked an American tour and then the pandemic hit. The album was released a week before the pandemic hits. We did one show in Paradiso joking about, there is already a person here that has COVID.

And then now everyone is, is going to be sick. And well, it turned out it wasn't a joke. Because everyone got sick.

And then the American tour, we had to cancel that. Luckily, I didn't order the visas yet, because that would have cost me like around five or six thousand euros. And you couldn't get it back if you already would spend the money.

So I cut down the tour just in time and saved us a lot of money. But like the whole career plan was like it went downhill because the album was, we couldn't tour the album anymore. The release was flying below the radar because of all the shit that was happening.

And after the pandemic, they had to cut down costs because they, like in the Netherlands, you had a lot of money from the government supporting venues and music infrastructure. But in the U.S. it wasn't working out that way. Yeah, it's not typical.

Yeah, so they cut down on all the European things that they were building up and they dropped the band. We were still in a publishing contract. So we had to, in the obligation, it was that we had to do three albums on publishing before getting out of the contract.

So that made it really hard that after the band was dropped from the label and we were trying to find a new label, we couldn't bring in publishing as well as part of the deal because it was still at SUPUP. And that was really hard because the band was also done with making guitar music. So they changed their sounds, which you will hear on the new record as well.

It's more like animal collective, weird jungle dance vibes. So it was really hard to rebrand the band and also trying to find a new label. So at some point we decided to release the album ourselves, as we did, but it also flew under the radar and we really missed all promotional tools and stuff.

And then last year we sat down and had a talk about it. And I said, if you really want to go for it one more round, then you should look into someone else that has the time and the network to support you in the best way possible. And at this point, working at Vera, I don't have that time nor the energy to do this anymore.

So then we decided to separate our ways. And the funny thing, I was in Ljubljana a few weeks ago for the MENT Festival, which is one of my favorite showcase festivals in Europe. And I was just talking to this random guy running a small label in Austria, which is SILU Records.

And if Koen hasn't talked about it, then now you have the exclusive news that they signed to SILU Records. And I was talking to this guy and I didn't know about him. And he said, yeah, I picked up this cool band from the Netherlands.

Maybe you know them. They're called The Homesick. So funny.

Yeah. And then at that point I knew, okay, things are, they're working out for the band. And yeah, and he was really dig the music.

So they're in the right place now. Yeah.

[Eryn]
All full circle, very nicely. Yeah. Coming together towards the end.

COVID really interrupted a lot of things for a lot of people, unfortunately.

[Peter]
Yeah, absolutely.

[Eryn]
Sorry?

[Peter]
Yeah. So every time when I'm thinking of this, the most of the time that we really feel it as a venue is in our nightlife program. So like in the first year after COVID, there were a lot of people coming back and like really celebrate the nightlife again.

And like all the concepts that we were developing in Vera for nightlife and club nights were doing really well. And then it all collapsed again. And this is the same at all venues in the Netherlands, that they are really struggling to find a new audience for club nights.

And in the past, before the pandemic, your club nights were the cheapest nights that you could organize. And also, on the other hand, they raise a lot of income for the venue, right? So we really have to try to work out a different business model for the venue when it comes to the nightlife, but also to run the venue in general, because you basically have three ways of getting income.

And first is ticket sales. The other one is everything that people buy at the bar. And the third one is funding.

So at Vera, we get some funding from Dutch Fonds Podium Kunsten, which is our art funding, and from the city as well. But that hardly covers... I think it only covers like 28 to 30% of our total budget.

So we really have to get almost 70% out of our own income. And nightlife was a very important part of that. So you see a lot of venues now that are struggling.

And we're doing okay, because of course we're a community venue and mostly run by volunteers. So our overhead costs are quite low compared to other venues. But also at Vera, we reserved some money for hard times, and that money is being used today to keep the venue going.

So I think we have a few years, but in a few years from now, we have to really find a different solution to keep the venues going in the Netherlands.

[Eryn]
If it's all right with you, I want to pivot really quickly to some of the community questions, since we're running low on time. I wanted to go back to the community aspect, because there's a question from Liz in the chat about the sort of structure that Vera has for volunteers. Because I was speaking a little bit on, before you arrived, the volunteer ecosystem that we have at Vera, and how lovely it is, and how much of a family and a team it is.

The question from the chat is essentially, Liz has heard that there are a lot of venues whose volunteer situations can easily become a toxic environment for some time. And how that manages to function so smoothly, and so sort of collectively inside Vera.

[Peter]
Yeah, that's a really good question, because sometimes I'm asking myself this as well. How is it even possible that we have over 200 volunteers, and we hardly have incidents that are toxic? Of course you have them, always.

Where people come together, you have these incidents, right? But I think we have a quite good system of small groups working together as a team. So people that are doing the artist hosting, for instance, or working together as a downstage group.

It's a team of people that are really looking after each other. And all these small teams have their own coordinator. And then we have one person applied at Vera for, I think it's almost one FCE that he has for coordinating all these volunteers.

We also have a person that, I don't know what it is in English, maybe like a trust person, or a person you can go to if you want to talk about things that happened to you in Vera, but you don't feel safe.

[Eryn]
Like an HR?

[Peter]
Yeah, thank you. That you can talk to when you don't want to talk to your team leader. So we really try to manage this on all these smaller levels at first, and then have someone coordinating everything in total.

But I think what really helps is that everyone is there because they have this common love for this underground venue and the music that we put on and the bands that we promote and the club nights that we do. So it's really, you're all getting together based on the same grounds, right? You have this common vision, how you want to live your life or what you find important in life or what you try to achieve or the kind of community that you're looking for.

It's almost like a student association where you meet other people that are interested in the same things, like for instance science or something. And this is a place where you get together over music and your love for music and arts. And I think that's what really binds everyone and that's why people join in at Vera.

And if you're into other types of music, you probably join in at Simplon. So I think most of the volunteers are just looking for a place where you meet other people that are like-minded people or could be your own community. So I think the answer is in that.

[Eryn]
And there's quite a demand for it too because I remember when I signed up to be a volunteer, there's a waiting list. And I was on the waiting list for 10 months before I had my first volunteer shift. So it's great to see.

One, of course, you have to wait a long time, but it's great to see that there's such a demand to kind of be a part of that community too and that it's so welcoming and so almost home-like given the sort of already artistic community that Groningen has and there are a lot of students. So there are a lot of young people involved in the arts that are really excited, I think, to join.

[Peter]
Yeah, it is quite humbling. I remember when I applied to be the promoter at Vera, I had to sit down for my application talk with six people from the staff and one person representing all the volunteers. And I was most nervous about her because to me, this is what the venue is about.

And without those volunteers, the venue isn't there, right? So I was really hoping that the volunteers would be okay with me being the new promoter because I wasn't one of them, which is also an important thing. We try to have people that come in and start at, I don't know, start working at the bar or at the wardrobe.

And if they want to learn more about doing lights, they can do lights. If they want to be bar coordinator, they can do a training and learn about how you run a bar or if you want to move up and want to be maybe doing production in the future. A lot of people that started at Vera and also at the festivals I was working are doing production work or other work in the music industry in the north of the Netherlands these days.

And yeah, so it's... I think everyone also in the paid staff are very aware of the importance of having this community of volunteers at Vera. And so if you're joining in as a volunteer, you'll become member of the association.

So that also brings some sort of responsibility and sense of community to everyone as well. So twice a year, we have an association meeting and then people can also vote about certain subjects that we're working on. So yeah, people are very much involved.

And I think that's really beautiful and something we should cherish.

[Eryn]
Yeah, and it's a great network too. There are a lot of volunteers I know that I met at Vera who work elsewhere in the music industry in Groningen. And you can find other volunteering or job opportunities or performance opportunities at other festivals and venues.

And I think it really kind of sows the tight-knit community, music community of Groningen together in that way.

[Peter]
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[Eryn]
Let me find another question from our community. I do have another one that I'm pretty sure is being asked from Pierre. Because I can't imagine anyone else who would ask this question, but he says...

Or the question from the community is, which host at Vera is your favourite and why?

[Peter]
Oh, he knows.

[Eryn]
Yeah, I'm sure he does. Let me see. What do you think is the most important for a band?

Great songs or a great work ethic?

[Peter]
Ooh. So my predecessor, he always had like this kind of like one rule in mind when it came to booking bands. And he said it's about three things.

He had like these three S's. So it was songs, soul and... I forgot about the third.

Maybe I'm just focusing on songs and soul.

[Eryn]
It's a good focus.

[Peter]
I think it was about...

I think he said... Maybe he did it in Dutch. But anyway, it's also about the attitude.

And I think... So at Vera... Maybe another example.

So I remember going to the Showcase Festival South by Southwest in Austin the year after the pandemic. And I listened to like all the bands that could be of interest for Vera. And I was pretty excited because I was thinking like, whoa, there's so many cool sounding bands that I'm going to see.

This is going to be such a good trip. And then I came there and I was disappointed in all the bands. And the reason was because they couldn't play a proper live show.

They hadn't played for two years. They just made music and released it, but they didn't play any shows. So all the artists felt really flat.

And for Vera, you have to put on a good... You have to translate your vision or your energy towards the audience and really own that stage. And it's an impressive stage to be on.

Seeing who played there before, seeing all the bands that won the best concert of the year. And they are all on the wall around. If you ever come to Vera, you will notice that we have band names on the wall since 1981.

And they're all elected by the Vera audience as best concert of the year. So you see the history written on the wall. And it can be a very humbling, but also a very impressive experience.

Or it could also trigger you to play your best show ever because you want to be on that wall as well. But if you're not able to play a really good live show, then I'll probably not book you because that's the thing that matters the most to me at Vera. That you can translate your work to an audience.

[Eryn]
Yeah, that sort of makes me want to ask another question. And that's how much does stage presence influence your decision-making process when booking a band for Vera?

[Peter]
Oh, maybe that was the other S.

[Eryn]
Oh, there we go.

[Peter]
Yeah, well, I don't know. Yeah, it matters. But it could be so many different things, right?

Because you can be like this very introvert band hardly connecting with the audience, but maybe it suits your music and then you play the best show ever. And our light engineer, probably also volunteering that night, gets a real sense of the mood that you're trying to set with your music. And then it's also probably the best show ever for that type of music and that kind of band.

So you don't have to bring something extra. I think what really matters is that you're sincere, that you're not overdoing something, but you do it with the heart and the soul. It doesn't matter what kind of emotion it is as long as I feel a certain kind of emotion.

So I could be mad at the band, I could be happy, I could be joyful, I could be super sad, whatever. But then if I feel something like that, and you probably all experienced this when you're standing in a concert hall and watching a band and it hits you in the heart in whatever way, then to me it's a good concert.

[Eryn]
Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead.

[Peter]
Last night we had this band called Deathcrash. They're from Rasmus and Pierre. They did amazing video work, by the way.

[Eryn]
I heard.

[Peter]
And they're from the UK. And I was already very impressed by their album. And I hadn't had the opportunity to see them live, but a promoter working in Rotterdam had them at Left of the Dial last year.

And he was really psyched about the band. So I checked with him and he said, yeah, you can definitely book them. So we booked them and they played last night and I was just struck by how good it was and how lights and sound and the band all work together and create this very atmospheric, wonderful night.

And at the end of the concert, I was almost like crying out of happiness or not knowing what kind of emotion I should let go on this night. To me, it's not the biggest band, it's not the very best band in the world, but they moved me. So it's going to be a concert that I'm probably going to put high on my list on the end of the year.

[Eryn]
Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes also it just takes a good lighting technician that you know really well to assist you in the performance process too.

[Peter]
Yeah, lighting can really make a show. And if you're not able to afford an own lighting technician, just make sure you have the right instructions for the one that's at the venue. Because this was also a lighting guy from Vera, but he got instructions from the band, he listened to the music, set up some different lights on stage and really created this wonderful mood.

[Eryn]
Go ahead, Rasmus.

[Rasmus]
Yeah, I just want to also add, because I know what Peter means also when we were shooting, it was definitely some of the more atmospheric songs that kind of caught on in a way, because it set a mood. And yeah, the lighting guy, I talked to him just before I left, and I didn't know he was just from the house and just acting on the notes of the band, but I think he did an amazing job, that guy yesterday. That was just cool to see.

Also, your sound engineer as well, Peter, I talked to him and he was like, yeah, I listened to the record, so I was really into it. He wasn't just like, yeah, whatever, this is a band, I'll just turn up the kick drum a little bit. He was really like, you picked special mics for some of the things.

That was cool to sense that dedication.

[Peter]
Yeah, that's really cool. And so with the group of technicians, besides two paid in-house technicians, all the other ones are also volunteering and they can apply for which show they want to do. And you really see the difference when they're not just doing their shift, but they, like you said, listen to the album, listen to what this band is about, look it up and try to make the best show possible.

And yesterday it turned out amazing.

[Eryn]
Okay, I have one more question I want to ask you and then I think we're going to wrap up. So just for any of our audience who are artists here today, if you would give three pieces of advice for a new band wanting to start playing shows and touring, what would they be?

[Peter]
Oh, wow. Okay, start playing as many shows as you can, but do make sure that you're not losing money to it. So don't try to like say yes to everything, even if you are lacking shows, because it's useless to drive somewhere and lose 200 euros and not even have like a proper meal or something, because you're better than that.

You're worth more than that. Bring a lot of merch. Making t-shirts or buttons or anything else is the most cheap way to sell your band and also sell your band as a brand.

So people, you know, if they're going to walk around with your t-shirt on, it's like the most direct way of communicating your music to other people and to reach a new audience, I'd say. Yeah, and I don't know. Don't hop back.

Just go out there and hit the road and don't just think of your own region where you're at. Just not think of the borders of your country. Because like in music, there are no borders.

You can go anywhere. And it's so, so inspiring to travel with your band and your mates and get better at what you're doing and have a good time and meet up new people in other places because you're also trying to build your own network that way. We had the same with The Homesick.

They did a wonderful tour in the former Balkan area and had the best experience. And these guys are also very much into history, in European history, and talking to people from other places in Europe about their vision towards what Europe is or how they learn about new artists or new music, what inspires them. And you will get inspired as well and bring those experiences back home and maybe share it with other bands from your own city.

So, yeah.

[Eryn]
Yeah, very great answers all around. Peter, we need to wrap up. I'm so sorry.

[Peter]
Maybe you can invite me again to do a full hour on Angine de Potrin.

[Eryn]
Yeah. The short end of the story is that the show sold out in two minutes, right?

[Peter]
Yeah, less than two minutes.

[Eryn]
Oh, my God.

[Peter]
Our website crashed after that. Crazy.

[Eryn]
Well, it'll be a good show for sure. Thank you so much, Peter, for joining us. This was all really great advice and insight.

And thank you so much for sharing your time. Thank you so much everyone else who attended to listen to this session. Always very grateful for everyone here.

And yeah, have a lovely Easter Sunday. That's about it.

[Peter]
Thank you all. And if you want to reach out, please do. Maybe you have some other questions that you couldn't ask today or that pop up later.

Feel free to email me or look me up here or look me up on Instagram. And I'll try to answer your questions as best as possible.

[Eryn]
Yeah. Peter, what's your email? Maybe I can just throw it in the chat.

[Peter]
I can.

[Eryn]
Or you can throw it in the general chat later too, if you'd like. Just, you know, let everyone know ways that they can get in contact with you. Perfect.

Yeah. Beautiful. Okay.

Well, thanks again. And we'll see you all next week for our session with Wietse. Bye-bye, everybody.

[Peter]
All right. Bye-bye.